WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.651 --> 00:00:12.563 So now we've talked about the first two models of human motives or 2 00:00:12.563 --> 00:00:13.851 motivation at work. 3 00:00:13.851 --> 00:00:17.556 We talked about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and the implication for 4 00:00:17.556 --> 00:00:21.199 you around how do you leverage the needs and values that people have and 5 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:25.230 create rewards that align with those to motivate performance. 6 00:00:25.230 --> 00:00:28.740 We talked about Hertzberg's two-factor model of hygiene factors and 7 00:00:28.740 --> 00:00:31.660 motivating factors, and how to leverage the hygiene 8 00:00:31.660 --> 00:00:34.900 factors to make sure people are not dissatisfied at work. 9 00:00:34.900 --> 00:00:38.450 But then also how to leverage those motivating factors 10 00:00:38.450 --> 00:00:42.040 to ensure that people are motivated, engaged, and want to contribute to 11 00:00:42.040 --> 00:00:44.970 the team the organization and really go above and beyond. 12 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:52.850 Now what I'd like to do is transition to this third model of human motivation. 13 00:00:52.850 --> 00:00:58.070 And this really is DC and Ryan in the 1990s and 14 00:00:58.070 --> 00:01:03.720 2000s, where they identified the fundamental and very important difference 15 00:01:03.720 --> 00:01:09.070 between extrinsic motivators and intrinsic motivators. 16 00:01:09.070 --> 00:01:11.620 And so let me give you a couple of examples. 17 00:01:11.620 --> 00:01:14.460 On the extrinsic motivator side. 18 00:01:14.460 --> 00:01:18.580 Money, for example, is a classic extrinsic reward. 19 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:24.620 Badges, for example, when you get a badge or an award. 20 00:01:24.620 --> 00:01:27.850 For example, the gold star effect, we call it. 21 00:01:27.850 --> 00:01:32.168 And organizations clearly are using money to motivate people. 22 00:01:32.168 --> 00:01:35.340 But there are very high profile organizations that are also 23 00:01:35.340 --> 00:01:38.190 using badges for example to motivate people. 24 00:01:38.190 --> 00:01:40.370 Amazon is a great example. 25 00:01:40.370 --> 00:01:47.320 Where on Amazon's internal IT computer system on the employee profiles 26 00:01:47.320 --> 00:01:52.130 you can go on and see any employee in the company and for 27 00:01:52.130 --> 00:01:56.230 their performance on different projects, different work assignments, and so on. 28 00:01:56.230 --> 00:02:00.880 Their managers can actually, and their peers even, can divvy out or 29 00:02:00.880 --> 00:02:04.590 give people badges or the equivalent of gold stars. 30 00:02:04.590 --> 00:02:08.090 And when you go and you look at any individual's profile within Amazon, 31 00:02:08.090 --> 00:02:12.230 you can actually see the badges and the gold stars, if you will, 32 00:02:12.230 --> 00:02:13.860 that they've collected. 33 00:02:13.860 --> 00:02:16.870 And employees in the organization take a lot of pride 34 00:02:16.870 --> 00:02:19.580 in the collection of these badges and gold stars. 35 00:02:19.580 --> 00:02:23.890 And so that's a great example of an organization who's using these badges and 36 00:02:23.890 --> 00:02:27.490 gold stars to actually motivate employees. 37 00:02:27.490 --> 00:02:31.060 Now for that to work and not seem, childish, 38 00:02:31.060 --> 00:02:35.100 if you will, is the employees really have to buy into the system. 39 00:02:35.100 --> 00:02:38.620 And so a lot of organizations will actually have the employees create 40 00:02:38.620 --> 00:02:41.060 the badge or the gold star system. 41 00:02:41.060 --> 00:02:46.120 So they're bought into it as opposed to the lead manager or the CEO or 42 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:48.660 someone like that creating the system and 43 00:02:48.660 --> 00:02:51.060 dictating it down through the organization. 44 00:02:51.060 --> 00:02:55.240 That's an example of a practice you probably want to come from the bottom up. 45 00:02:55.240 --> 00:03:00.430 Other examples of extrinsic, the titles you give individuals, 46 00:03:00.430 --> 00:03:05.410 the corner office, things that really represent status in that regard. 47 00:03:05.410 --> 00:03:09.310 Those are great examples of extrinsic motivators. 48 00:03:09.310 --> 00:03:13.600 That organizations around the world use to motivate performance. 49 00:03:14.770 --> 00:03:19.150 But those are all things that are outside of us that the organization 50 00:03:19.150 --> 00:03:22.880 is doing to motivate our performance. 51 00:03:22.880 --> 00:03:24.100 Extrinsic, if you will. 52 00:03:25.210 --> 00:03:28.580 At the same time, there are what DC and Ryan have talked about, 53 00:03:28.580 --> 00:03:30.970 as intrinsic motives. 54 00:03:30.970 --> 00:03:33.760 And these really are the needs and values that we talked about, 55 00:03:33.760 --> 00:03:36.100 as part of Maslow's hierarchy. 56 00:03:36.100 --> 00:03:41.010 For example, I might value autonomy, or another word for that would be control. 57 00:03:41.010 --> 00:03:47.460 I want to have control over the work I do, and being able to make my own decisions. 58 00:03:47.460 --> 00:03:49.200 And those sorts of things. 59 00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:52.690 Belongings, something Maslow talks specifically about, the need or 60 00:03:52.690 --> 00:03:56.820 the want to be part of a community, or something bigger than myself. 61 00:03:56.820 --> 00:04:01.720 Other examples that we've looked at in our research, curiosity, love even, or 62 00:04:01.720 --> 00:04:05.300 the desire to learn and grow, mastery. 63 00:04:05.300 --> 00:04:08.100 Or, ultimately, something we've talked about already, and 64 00:04:08.100 --> 00:04:12.460 will continue to do so, is the value of meaning, meaning in work. 65 00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:13.900 Why is my work important? 66 00:04:13.900 --> 00:04:15.590 What's the significance of it? 67 00:04:15.590 --> 00:04:18.280 These are all examples of intrinsic motives. 68 00:04:18.280 --> 00:04:23.240 Values and needs that I have that organizations or you as a manager, 69 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:28.280 you as a team member, can actually leverage to motivate someone. 70 00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:33.160 And so what I wanna do is share with you some of the latest cutting edge research 71 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:37.620 that we've been doing on the importance of extrinsic and intrinsic motives. 72 00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:42.030 There are a lot of myths out there in terms of should we use extrinsic motives? 73 00:04:42.030 --> 00:04:44.060 Should we use intrinsic motives? 74 00:04:44.060 --> 00:04:45.000 How do they combine? 75 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.000 And so I want to talk about some of the key questions that often 76 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:53.820 come up in my consulting and my teaching and my research around the balance of this 77 00:04:53.820 --> 00:04:59.520 extrinsic versus intrinsic motivators and the source of motivation. 78 00:04:59.520 --> 00:05:01.830 One of the first questions that often comes up, 79 00:05:01.830 --> 00:05:07.000 I do a lot of work with organizations that have really large sales forces. 80 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:12.080 And it's often assumed that the salespeople in the organization, 81 00:05:12.080 --> 00:05:15.705 whether it be pharmaceutical schools or technology 82 00:05:15.705 --> 00:05:19.765 that the salespeople are really the only thing they care about is the money. 83 00:05:19.765 --> 00:05:22.335 Their salary, their bonus at the end of the year. 84 00:05:22.335 --> 00:05:27.700 And certainly on average we find in our research that salespeople to care about 85 00:05:27.700 --> 00:05:30.020 money or the extrinsic rewards. 86 00:05:30.020 --> 00:05:32.870 On average, more than most. 87 00:05:32.870 --> 00:05:35.270 But, it's not all they care about. 88 00:05:35.270 --> 00:05:43.700 Let me share with you this study where we looked at 94 life insurance salespeople. 89 00:05:43.700 --> 00:05:47.330 This is a mid-sized insurance company in the United States. 90 00:05:47.330 --> 00:05:52.390 And we looked at 94 of the sales representatives, 91 00:05:52.390 --> 00:05:55.030 who were selling life insurance. 92 00:05:55.030 --> 00:06:00.105 We assessed their intrinsic and extrinsic motivation for 93 00:06:00.105 --> 00:06:05.840 performing, and those two intrinsic and extrinsic motivation 94 00:06:05.840 --> 00:06:10.900 combine to explain 49% of their sales performance on the job so 95 00:06:10.900 --> 00:06:14.680 the value of understanding someones intrinsic motivation and 96 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:18.500 understanding what drives them in terms of their extrinsic motivation 97 00:06:18.500 --> 00:06:22.810 is hugely important for understanding drivers of performance. 98 00:06:22.810 --> 00:06:26.310 But the interesting thing from this study that was published in the Journal of 99 00:06:26.310 --> 00:06:31.010 Marketing was the importance of the intrinsic relative to the extrinsic. 100 00:06:32.110 --> 00:06:37.080 What you see here is that the intrinsic 101 00:06:37.080 --> 00:06:43.440 motivation was actually 44% greater 102 00:06:43.440 --> 00:06:48.570 in its impact on sales performance relative to the extrinsic motivation. 103 00:06:50.430 --> 00:06:52.200 That's a huge difference. 104 00:06:53.520 --> 00:06:55.940 And so when you think about salespeople, 105 00:06:55.940 --> 00:07:01.290 don't simply assume that all they care about is the extrinsic motivating forces. 106 00:07:01.290 --> 00:07:03.390 Salary, recognition, status, etc. 107 00:07:04.470 --> 00:07:06.950 They do care about those aspects but 108 00:07:06.950 --> 00:07:12.460 they also on average care a lot about the intrinsic motives and 109 00:07:12.460 --> 00:07:15.920 interestingly if we're predicting their actually sales performance, 110 00:07:17.010 --> 00:07:22.110 the intrinsic motives are actually much more important in determining whether or 111 00:07:22.110 --> 00:07:27.300 not someone sells this much, this much, or this much. 112 00:07:27.300 --> 00:07:30.760 And so you want to pay particular attention to what's driving someone 113 00:07:30.760 --> 00:07:34.750 intrinsically when they're in sales, not only extrinsically. 114 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:40.310 Another question that I often get is 115 00:07:40.310 --> 00:07:44.680 can extrinsic rewards actually be de-motivating? 116 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:46.270 And, the simple answer is yes. 117 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:53.440 You can actually undermine someone's intrinsic motivation, 118 00:07:53.440 --> 00:07:56.170 their innate desire to contribute. 119 00:07:56.170 --> 00:08:03.100 Their need or their want to make a difference through their work. 120 00:08:03.100 --> 00:08:08.100 You can actually undermine those intrinsic motives by 121 00:08:08.100 --> 00:08:14.260 focusing exclusively or really emphasizing the extrinsic rewards. 122 00:08:14.260 --> 00:08:18.976 Here are the results from one of my favorite studies to illustrate this 123 00:08:18.976 --> 00:08:23.810 effect, Mirayama and colleagues, 124 00:08:23.810 --> 00:08:28.030 in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences back in 2010 125 00:08:28.030 --> 00:08:33.260 published a study where they brought people into a laboratory. 126 00:08:33.260 --> 00:08:37.370 And they designed a simple task, but a really interesting and 127 00:08:37.370 --> 00:08:39.490 engaging task, using a stopwatch. 128 00:08:40.790 --> 00:08:44.010 And what they did is they had a control group, 129 00:08:44.010 --> 00:08:46.570 where they asked people to do the task but 130 00:08:46.570 --> 00:08:51.860 they didn't associate any formal extrinsic reward to the performance of that task. 131 00:08:53.310 --> 00:08:56.560 And then they had another condition where they randomly assigned people to these 132 00:08:56.560 --> 00:08:59.505 conditions, and that was the reward condition. 133 00:08:59.505 --> 00:09:04.755 And in this reward condition they explicitly tied to people's performing 134 00:09:04.755 --> 00:09:10.235 the interesting and engaging task with a stopwatch to a reward, where 135 00:09:10.235 --> 00:09:14.897 based on your performance in the task you would receive financial compensation. 136 00:09:14.897 --> 00:09:18.487 And what was fascinating is they had multiple sessions, and 137 00:09:18.487 --> 00:09:19.747 in each of these sessions, 138 00:09:19.747 --> 00:09:25.240 there was a period where people could voluntarily play, or engage in the test. 139 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:29.150 So remember, this is an interesting task using a stopwatch. 140 00:09:29.150 --> 00:09:33.830 And they gave people an opportunity, essentially free time, to determine or 141 00:09:33.830 --> 00:09:39.080 to choose, rather, whether they want to engage in this task. 142 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:40.912 And fascinating. 143 00:09:40.912 --> 00:09:46.059 The people who were in the control condition, where there was no reward, 144 00:09:46.059 --> 00:09:51.624 attached to their performance on the task, actually volunteered to perform or 145 00:09:51.624 --> 00:09:56.439 play the task many more times than the people who actually had a formal 146 00:09:56.439 --> 00:10:01.531 incentive, a formal reward, linked to their performance on the task. 147 00:10:01.531 --> 00:10:03.920 And so this is discretionary effort. 148 00:10:03.920 --> 00:10:09.380 You want someone in your team to go above and beyond their formal job duty. 149 00:10:09.380 --> 00:10:12.790 You want them to volunteer to go above and beyond. 150 00:10:12.790 --> 00:10:16.419 The more you link a very explicit financial reward to the performance of 151 00:10:16.419 --> 00:10:19.822 that behavior, the less likely you're actually going to get it. 152 00:10:19.822 --> 00:10:25.544 That is a revolutionary insight that really shapes how we might motivate 153 00:10:25.544 --> 00:10:30.516 people using extrinsic rewards and intrinsic rewards, and so 154 00:10:30.516 --> 00:10:36.610 one conclusion that I want you to draw from this, is that rewarding people for 155 00:10:36.610 --> 00:10:42.238 an intrinsically interesting task, a task that, either naturally or 156 00:10:42.238 --> 00:10:47.361 because the person is naturally attracted to that type of work. 157 00:10:47.361 --> 00:10:51.411 If the person is intrinsically motivated to perform that task, and you 158 00:10:51.411 --> 00:10:56.340 emphasize the extrinsic rewards associated with them performing that task, you'll 159 00:10:56.340 --> 00:11:01.010 actually undermine the discretionary effort that you might be seeking. 160 00:11:01.010 --> 00:11:03.640 And that's a really important insight. 161 00:11:03.640 --> 00:11:08.120 Now, it's not only that you'll undermine their effort on the task but 162 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:10.730 you'll actually undermine their performance as well. 163 00:11:10.730 --> 00:11:13.070 So this is from that same study. 164 00:11:13.070 --> 00:11:14.520 And Murayama and 165 00:11:14.520 --> 00:11:20.420 colleagues actually looked at how well people performed this stopwatch task. 166 00:11:20.420 --> 00:11:25.250 And what you actually see here is that people in the reward condition, 167 00:11:25.250 --> 00:11:30.760 the first time in the first session when they engaged in a task, 168 00:11:30.760 --> 00:11:32.430 they actually perform better. 169 00:11:32.430 --> 00:11:36.140 So there's a short term win to that financial incentive. 170 00:11:36.140 --> 00:11:38.300 But then look at session two. 171 00:11:38.300 --> 00:11:41.000 The performance drops dramatically 172 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.750 relative to the control where there was no financial incentive. 173 00:11:44.750 --> 00:11:49.650 And so you wanna think about the use of these financial incentives. 174 00:11:49.650 --> 00:11:55.970 Whether you need the short term benefit or whether you have a long term need. 175 00:11:55.970 --> 00:12:00.070 And one conclusion from these data is that you might get a short term benefit due to 176 00:12:00.070 --> 00:12:01.570 the reward. 177 00:12:01.570 --> 00:12:05.120 But you might actually undermine their performance and 178 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:06.780 their effort as you go forward. 179 00:12:08.710 --> 00:12:12.870 And one of the most fascinating aspects of this study, at least for me, 180 00:12:13.920 --> 00:12:19.470 was and colleagues didn't stop with just assessing people's performance or 181 00:12:19.470 --> 00:12:21.450 how much they engaged in the task. 182 00:12:21.450 --> 00:12:27.320 They actually used FMRI machines to take radiological scans 183 00:12:28.640 --> 00:12:33.010 of people's brain activity as they performed these tasks. 184 00:12:33.010 --> 00:12:36.400 And what you see here are the actual images 185 00:12:36.400 --> 00:12:40.090 of people in these different conditions. 186 00:12:40.090 --> 00:12:44.140 So, what you see here is, look at the reward condition. 187 00:12:44.140 --> 00:12:47.150 So in session one where the reward condition is performing 188 00:12:47.150 --> 00:12:48.390 actually quite well. 189 00:12:48.390 --> 00:12:53.030 They're not performing it as many times as the control condition, but 190 00:12:53.030 --> 00:12:55.410 when they do perform it they're performing quite well. 191 00:12:55.410 --> 00:13:01.540 Their brain waves are firing basically, but look at session two for the reward 192 00:13:01.540 --> 00:13:06.480 condition, essentially in session two, the brain activity just stops completely. 193 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.900 And so you have people who aren't engaged in the task, and 194 00:13:09.900 --> 00:13:11.420 they're not performing well. 195 00:13:11.420 --> 00:13:13.960 And part of that explanation is, mentally, 196 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:16.185 cognitively, they're just not engaged in the task. 197 00:13:16.185 --> 00:13:18.935 They're just not motivated to perform. 198 00:13:18.935 --> 00:13:21.485 And then you looks at the control condition and 199 00:13:21.485 --> 00:13:23.955 over time you still see the brain waves firing. 200 00:13:23.955 --> 00:13:26.035 They're engaged and 201 00:13:26.035 --> 00:13:29.425 really committed to performing the task even though you're not paying them. 202 00:13:29.425 --> 00:13:31.955 And so, I found this study fascinating, 203 00:13:31.955 --> 00:13:34.605 not only because they were able to show the effect, but 204 00:13:34.605 --> 00:13:38.950 they're actually able to get down to the brain activity that explains why. 205 00:13:38.950 --> 00:13:40.450 And that's pretty fascinating work. 206 00:13:43.990 --> 00:13:47.150 The one thing that I want you to take into account, 207 00:13:47.150 --> 00:13:51.180 however, is that the conclusion that you should be drawing from this is not 208 00:13:51.180 --> 00:13:53.860 to throw extrinsic rewards out completely. 209 00:13:53.860 --> 00:13:55.180 Can they be demotivating? 210 00:13:55.180 --> 00:13:57.570 Can they undermine intrinsic motivation? 211 00:13:57.570 --> 00:13:58.630 The data suggests yes. 212 00:13:59.650 --> 00:14:04.030 But what we also find, in one of the most comprehensive studies 213 00:14:04.030 --> 00:14:09.600 I've ever seen on intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation is the data here. 214 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.750 The sample size here ranges from over 3,000 to over 117,000 people from around 215 00:14:12.750 --> 00:14:14.070 the world, and what 216 00:14:16.110 --> 00:14:20.700 you see here is the correlation between intrinsic motivation and 217 00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:26.670 performance on the job under different uses of extrinsic rewards. 218 00:14:26.670 --> 00:14:28.440 So, on the far left, 219 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.260 you see the relationship between intrinsic motivation and 220 00:14:31.260 --> 00:14:36.449 task performance when the individual has no extrinsic reward tied to performance. 221 00:14:37.650 --> 00:14:41.860 And the impact of intrinsic motivational performance is positive, but 222 00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:43.040 not all that strong. 223 00:14:44.370 --> 00:14:48.900 The direct intrinsic, or, sorry, direct extrinsic reward, 224 00:14:48.900 --> 00:14:53.610 this would be an example of giving someone a financial incentive tied directly 225 00:14:53.610 --> 00:14:58.760 to their performance on the task, basically has no added benefit. 226 00:14:58.760 --> 00:15:01.940 Above and beyond no extrinsic reward. 227 00:15:01.940 --> 00:15:06.700 But, what's interesting is in this study when 228 00:15:06.700 --> 00:15:11.760 they actually provided what they called an indirect extrinsic reward. 229 00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:15.330 And what they mean by indirect is the financial incentive or 230 00:15:15.330 --> 00:15:18.790 the bonus is not tied to your performance or 231 00:15:18.790 --> 00:15:23.300 the outcome of the task, but actually how much you engage in the task, 232 00:15:23.300 --> 00:15:27.130 essentially your effort, your engagement in the task itself. 233 00:15:27.130 --> 00:15:29.460 Or whether you complete the task. 234 00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:32.710 So not your actual performance, whether you perform well or not, but 235 00:15:32.710 --> 00:15:35.700 actually completion or the level of engagement in the task. 236 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:39.800 That's what they refer to as indirect, extrinsic rewards. 237 00:15:39.800 --> 00:15:44.120 Then what you see is when you combine the indirect extrinsic reward 238 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:49.150 with intrinsic motivation you get a huge boost in terms of task performance. 239 00:15:49.150 --> 00:15:53.936 And so the implication for you as a team member, as a manager, is how can you 240 00:15:53.936 --> 00:15:58.505 leverage individual's intrinsic motivation. 241 00:15:58.505 --> 00:16:00.745 Really understand what they value, what they care about, and 242 00:16:00.745 --> 00:16:02.975 focus on those aspects. 243 00:16:02.975 --> 00:16:06.285 And then create indirect rewards. 244 00:16:06.285 --> 00:16:09.830 Not tied necessarily to their outcome, not pay for 245 00:16:09.830 --> 00:16:13.530 performance, but pay for engagement. 246 00:16:13.530 --> 00:16:17.860 Pay for engagement in the task, completion of the task. 247 00:16:17.860 --> 00:16:19.370 That, based on these data, 248 00:16:19.370 --> 00:16:22.740 is where we see the biggest positive impact on performance.