WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.499 align:middle line:90%


00:00:00.499 --> 00:00:03.570 align:middle line:84%
Why are children referred
to the care system?

00:00:03.570 --> 00:00:08.100 align:middle line:84%
At least there are two levels
of the possible answers.

00:00:08.100 --> 00:00:12.960 align:middle line:84%
First of all, if you are
looking at the theoretical, more

00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:17.190 align:middle line:84%
complex approach, not
the practical approach,

00:00:17.190 --> 00:00:22.500 align:middle line:84%
then we have to say that
there are several issues not

00:00:22.500 --> 00:00:28.050 align:middle line:84%
clarified by many on what
is the role of the parents

00:00:28.050 --> 00:00:32.640 align:middle line:84%
and the responsibility of
the parents, the community,

00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:37.860 align:middle line:84%
and the state in ensuring the
upbringing of the children

00:00:37.860 --> 00:00:39.810 align:middle line:90%
and their well-being.

00:00:39.810 --> 00:00:44.400 align:middle line:84%
And this is absolutely
essential because if you

00:00:44.400 --> 00:00:47.310 align:middle line:84%
are blaming the parents for
not being good enough parents

00:00:47.310 --> 00:00:51.360 align:middle line:84%
but not facilitating them
with the needed resources,

00:00:51.360 --> 00:00:53.670 align:middle line:84%
knowledge, and skills,
then how can we

00:00:53.670 --> 00:00:56.860 align:middle line:84%
expect them to be good
enough parents in a world

00:00:56.860 --> 00:01:01.500 align:middle line:84%
where actually, expectations
towards the parents are lost,

00:01:01.500 --> 00:01:02.970 align:middle line:90%
and it's growing?

00:01:02.970 --> 00:01:05.850 align:middle line:84%
It is becoming a
very complex issue

00:01:05.850 --> 00:01:11.640 align:middle line:84%
who is suitable for parenting,
who is a good parent,

00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:15.160 align:middle line:84%
and how should or shouldn't
the community and the state

00:01:15.160 --> 00:01:18.620 align:middle line:84%
be contributing to the
developing of children,

00:01:18.620 --> 00:01:22.210 align:middle line:84%
what are the roles
concerning the finances,

00:01:22.210 --> 00:01:27.130 align:middle line:84%
the in-kind support, the
contribution to the education,

00:01:27.130 --> 00:01:30.840 align:middle line:84%
health care, and social
well-being of children.

00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.050 align:middle line:84%
The other level of the issue
is the more practical one,

00:01:34.050 --> 00:01:35.130 align:middle line:90%
if you like.

00:01:35.130 --> 00:01:39.000 align:middle line:84%
And we are looking at the
reasons, the concrete reasons,

00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:41.130 align:middle line:84%
why children are referred
to the care system.

00:01:41.130 --> 00:01:43.290 align:middle line:90%
It can be very misleading.

00:01:43.290 --> 00:01:47.090 align:middle line:84%
Obviously, it differs very
widely throughout the world.

00:01:47.090 --> 00:01:49.140 align:middle line:90%
But what we have detected--

00:01:49.140 --> 00:01:53.880 align:middle line:84%
that the main, not
always visible reason

00:01:53.880 --> 00:01:57.900 align:middle line:84%
is poverty,
deprivation, material,

00:01:57.900 --> 00:01:59.940 align:middle line:90%
and other form of deprivation.

00:01:59.940 --> 00:02:03.010 align:middle line:84%
But even when we are
talking about poverty,

00:02:03.010 --> 00:02:06.870 align:middle line:84%
what we see is that the children
are referred for some reasons

00:02:06.870 --> 00:02:11.430 align:middle line:84%
to care system that are
closely related to poverty,

00:02:11.430 --> 00:02:16.140 align:middle line:84%
but it's not necessarily only
the poverty of the family,

00:02:16.140 --> 00:02:19.110 align:middle line:84%
but also, the lack
of other resources,

00:02:19.110 --> 00:02:23.550 align:middle line:84%
like the lack of transportation,
the lack of adequate health

00:02:23.550 --> 00:02:28.350 align:middle line:84%
care, the lack of adequate
education, or social services.

00:02:28.350 --> 00:02:30.750 align:middle line:84%
And oftentimes, the
service providers

00:02:30.750 --> 00:02:33.870 align:middle line:84%
or the local municipalities
are also very poor.

00:02:33.870 --> 00:02:36.690 align:middle line:84%
So they can't support the
parents and the families

00:02:36.690 --> 00:02:42.450 align:middle line:84%
and the children even if it
would be desirable, and also

00:02:42.450 --> 00:02:44.430 align:middle line:90%
part of the legislation.

00:02:44.430 --> 00:02:46.590 align:middle line:84%
Now, there are obviously
many other reasons

00:02:46.590 --> 00:02:49.620 align:middle line:84%
why children are referred
to the care system.

00:02:49.620 --> 00:02:56.130 align:middle line:84%
And in most instances, children
are referred to the care system

00:02:56.130 --> 00:03:00.420 align:middle line:84%
as a consequence of poverty
or other kind of deprivations

00:03:00.420 --> 00:03:07.110 align:middle line:84%
because of neglect or abuse
or because the parents are not

00:03:07.110 --> 00:03:11.520 align:middle line:84%
capable fulfilling their
parenting responsibilities

00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:12.870 align:middle line:90%
and duties.

00:03:12.870 --> 00:03:17.670 align:middle line:84%
And why I'm so hesitant when I'm
talking about these reasons--

00:03:17.670 --> 00:03:20.010 align:middle line:84%
but there are a
mixture of reasons.

00:03:20.010 --> 00:03:22.200 align:middle line:84%
And there are quite
complex issues

00:03:22.200 --> 00:03:26.760 align:middle line:84%
when it comes to the
referring of the children

00:03:26.760 --> 00:03:29.280 align:middle line:84%
and the resource
and other factor

00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:33.060 align:middle line:84%
that there is a very, very
limited information and data

00:03:33.060 --> 00:03:38.940 align:middle line:84%
on the exact reasons leading
not only directly, but also

00:03:38.940 --> 00:03:44.610 align:middle line:84%
indirectly, to the referral of
the children to a care system.

00:03:44.610 --> 00:03:46.640 align:middle line:84%
Why is it important
that we consider

00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:50.160 align:middle line:84%
a rights-based approach when
dealing with children who are

00:03:50.160 --> 00:03:53.040 align:middle line:90%
referred to the care system?

00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:56.070 align:middle line:84%
Again, there are many
layers of the answer.

00:03:56.070 --> 00:03:59.820 align:middle line:84%
First of all, because
the UNCRC is the most

00:03:59.820 --> 00:04:04.640 align:middle line:84%
widely ratified convention,
human rights convention.

00:04:04.640 --> 00:04:07.890 align:middle line:84%
Now, although not
binding, but ratified

00:04:07.890 --> 00:04:11.790 align:middle line:84%
by almost all the countries in
the world, and even the United

00:04:11.790 --> 00:04:13.950 align:middle line:84%
States, often accused
for not ratifying,

00:04:13.950 --> 00:04:16.019 align:middle line:84%
but they signed the
convention, and also

00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:17.430 align:middle line:90%
the two optional protocols.

00:04:17.430 --> 00:04:22.770 align:middle line:84%
So they are also trying to
implement as far as they can.

00:04:22.770 --> 00:04:24.680 align:middle line:84%
And the Convention on
the Rights of the Child

00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:29.580 align:middle line:84%
is very clearly describing
the rights of children

00:04:29.580 --> 00:04:38.100 align:middle line:84%
to a fair and rights-based life,
where their well-being is one

00:04:38.100 --> 00:04:40.680 align:middle line:90%
of the goals to be achieved.

00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:44.520 align:middle line:84%
And this is based on the notion
that we are all human beings,

00:04:44.520 --> 00:04:47.400 align:middle line:84%
and children are
also human beings,

00:04:47.400 --> 00:04:49.110 align:middle line:90%
entitled to all the rights.

00:04:49.110 --> 00:04:51.730 align:middle line:84%
But as they are more
vulnerable than the adults,

00:04:51.730 --> 00:04:54.500 align:middle line:84%
so they have specific
rights enshrined

00:04:54.500 --> 00:04:56.580 align:middle line:84%
in the Convention on
the Rights of the Child

00:04:56.580 --> 00:04:59.190 align:middle line:90%
and its optional protocols.

00:04:59.190 --> 00:05:01.910 align:middle line:84%
Now, when we are talking
about the alternative care,

00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:04.930 align:middle line:84%
there is another very
important document,

00:05:04.930 --> 00:05:10.210 align:middle line:84%
the UN Guidelines on the
Alternative Care of Children.

00:05:10.210 --> 00:05:15.070 align:middle line:84%
That is also backing up
the convention itself

00:05:15.070 --> 00:05:21.460 align:middle line:84%
and enhancing the importance
of specifically focusing

00:05:21.460 --> 00:05:23.370 align:middle line:90%
on alternative care.

00:05:23.370 --> 00:05:27.640 align:middle line:84%
When the convention
was prepared,

00:05:27.640 --> 00:05:31.930 align:middle line:84%
as we see now, although
it's very comprehensive

00:05:31.930 --> 00:05:36.490 align:middle line:84%
and try to cover all the
needed areas of child rights,

00:05:36.490 --> 00:05:41.050 align:middle line:84%
there have been many lacking
or not so well-articulated

00:05:41.050 --> 00:05:42.770 align:middle line:90%
components.

00:05:42.770 --> 00:05:46.690 align:middle line:84%
And as time is passing
by, we obviously

00:05:46.690 --> 00:05:53.910 align:middle line:84%
try to add on in whatever area
we feel this kind of need.

00:05:53.910 --> 00:05:57.550 align:middle line:84%
And alternative care is
definitely one of the areas.

00:05:57.550 --> 00:06:04.120 align:middle line:84%
It is a coincidence, though,
that when the convention was

00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:08.170 align:middle line:84%
for the first time accepted
by the UN General Assembly,

00:06:08.170 --> 00:06:11.860 align:middle line:84%
it was in 1989, which
was exactly the year when

00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:14.590 align:middle line:84%
transition, political
economic transition,

00:06:14.590 --> 00:06:16.990 align:middle line:84%
happened in Central
and Eastern Europe.

00:06:16.990 --> 00:06:22.780 align:middle line:84%
And this is an interesting
coincidence because then it

00:06:22.780 --> 00:06:27.460 align:middle line:84%
took a while for many
to recognise the need

00:06:27.460 --> 00:06:30.730 align:middle line:84%
for deinstitutionalisation
of children based

00:06:30.730 --> 00:06:35.200 align:middle line:84%
on their horrific experiences
and the visual experiences,

00:06:35.200 --> 00:06:38.950 align:middle line:84%
also, on television and in
the media of the Romanian

00:06:38.950 --> 00:06:40.270 align:middle line:90%
orphanages.

00:06:40.270 --> 00:06:43.780 align:middle line:84%
And slowly, the whole
world has learned much,

00:06:43.780 --> 00:06:46.570 align:middle line:84%
much more about
those children who

00:06:46.570 --> 00:06:49.510 align:middle line:84%
haven't been so visible,
not only in Eastern Europe,

00:06:49.510 --> 00:06:51.950 align:middle line:90%
but all over the world.

00:06:51.950 --> 00:06:55.960 align:middle line:84%
And as children's rights have
evolved, to say, and also

00:06:55.960 --> 00:07:00.040 align:middle line:84%
have become much more and
more known and accepted,

00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:03.550 align:middle line:84%
more and more vulnerable
groups of the children

00:07:03.550 --> 00:07:07.030 align:middle line:90%
have become in the focus.

00:07:07.030 --> 00:07:10.570 align:middle line:84%
And children in
alternative care--

00:07:10.570 --> 00:07:13.750 align:middle line:84%
also, not only those in
alternative care in general,

00:07:13.750 --> 00:07:16.880 align:middle line:84%
but specific subgroups
of the children--

00:07:16.880 --> 00:07:19.780 align:middle line:84%
children with disabilities,
ethnic minorities,

00:07:19.780 --> 00:07:23.050 align:middle line:84%
refugee children,
unaccompanied minors,

00:07:23.050 --> 00:07:25.660 align:middle line:90%
children in street situation--

00:07:25.660 --> 00:07:29.980 align:middle line:84%
they have also become
into the focus.

00:07:29.980 --> 00:07:33.790 align:middle line:84%
And we've started working
on the specific areas.

00:07:33.790 --> 00:07:36.490 align:middle line:84%
Now, when it comes to the
rights-based approach,

00:07:36.490 --> 00:07:39.580 align:middle line:84%
it is obvious that children
living in their families

00:07:39.580 --> 00:07:42.850 align:middle line:84%
in a nurturing, warm,
nice environment

00:07:42.850 --> 00:07:46.420 align:middle line:84%
also need, in many instances,
special protection.

00:07:46.420 --> 00:07:50.620 align:middle line:84%
But those who are deprived of
family care and who are not

00:07:50.620 --> 00:07:55.780 align:middle line:84%
having an opportunity to
live in a supportive network

00:07:55.780 --> 00:07:59.590 align:middle line:84%
in a community- or
family-based situation--

00:07:59.590 --> 00:08:03.340 align:middle line:84%
they need even more attention
and much, much more help.

00:08:03.340 --> 00:08:05.410 align:middle line:84%
What should we be
doing to prevent

00:08:05.410 --> 00:08:09.370 align:middle line:84%
the unnecessary separation of
children from their parents?

00:08:09.370 --> 00:08:14.260 align:middle line:84%
It seems to be a common sense
for all those working in child

00:08:14.260 --> 00:08:16.210 align:middle line:84%
welfare, child
protection, but we

00:08:16.210 --> 00:08:18.380 align:middle line:84%
have to repeat it
again and again

00:08:18.380 --> 00:08:23.680 align:middle line:84%
because many don't
seem to understand

00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:27.250 align:middle line:84%
what is the direct and
indirect relationship

00:08:27.250 --> 00:08:32.409 align:middle line:84%
between universal services
provided to children in health,

00:08:32.409 --> 00:08:35.169 align:middle line:84%
education, social
services, then more

00:08:35.169 --> 00:08:38.740 align:middle line:84%
targeted for special groups
who need more attention,

00:08:38.740 --> 00:08:42.880 align:middle line:84%
and very specialised to also
serve the individualised needs

00:08:42.880 --> 00:08:44.350 align:middle line:90%
of children.

00:08:44.350 --> 00:08:48.330 align:middle line:84%
Now, if you look at the
investment in children,

00:08:48.330 --> 00:08:51.310 align:middle line:84%
as this is an expression
used more and more--

00:08:51.310 --> 00:08:53.950 align:middle line:84%
and there is a clear
recommendation made

00:08:53.950 --> 00:08:57.970 align:middle line:84%
by the European Commission
in 2013, for instance,

00:08:57.970 --> 00:09:01.900 align:middle line:84%
investing in children, breaking
the cycle of disadvantage--

00:09:01.900 --> 00:09:05.740 align:middle line:84%
this is expressing exactly
what we should do--

00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:09.970 align:middle line:84%
providing high-quality,
accessible, and preferably

00:09:09.970 --> 00:09:14.140 align:middle line:84%
free services to all
children so that we

00:09:14.140 --> 00:09:17.770 align:middle line:84%
can prevent any
kind of deprivation,

00:09:17.770 --> 00:09:20.350 align:middle line:84%
and based on their
individualised needs,

00:09:20.350 --> 00:09:23.440 align:middle line:84%
supporting them and
their families so

00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:27.070 align:middle line:84%
that the parents can fulfil
the obligations they've got.

00:09:27.070 --> 00:09:31.510 align:middle line:84%
If you look at the
convention, then the Article 5

00:09:31.510 --> 00:09:36.160 align:middle line:84%
is talking about the parents'
primary responsibility

00:09:36.160 --> 00:09:38.590 align:middle line:84%
to take good care
of their children.

00:09:38.590 --> 00:09:42.700 align:middle line:84%
However, there is a second
point in the Article 5 saying

00:09:42.700 --> 00:09:46.990 align:middle line:84%
that the state has to support,
in all means, the parents

00:09:46.990 --> 00:09:49.240 align:middle line:90%
to fulfil their obligations.

00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:52.360 align:middle line:84%
And there is an
article also, the 20th,

00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:56.230 align:middle line:84%
which is also talking
about this state support.

00:09:56.230 --> 00:09:59.750 align:middle line:84%
Now, I guess this is going back
to our original question, what

00:09:59.750 --> 00:10:02.750 align:middle line:90%
is the share of responsibility.

00:10:02.750 --> 00:10:07.250 align:middle line:84%
And I guess it is quite obvious
that in almost all countries

00:10:07.250 --> 00:10:11.180 align:middle line:84%
in the world nowadays,
it seems to be evident

00:10:11.180 --> 00:10:17.750 align:middle line:84%
that every child born is
entitled to certain services.

00:10:17.750 --> 00:10:22.220 align:middle line:84%
Obviously, depending on
the country's opportunities

00:10:22.220 --> 00:10:24.860 align:middle line:84%
and financial and
other resources,

00:10:24.860 --> 00:10:28.920 align:middle line:84%
it varies widely what kind
of services are available.

00:10:28.920 --> 00:10:30.500 align:middle line:90%
But what we can say--

00:10:30.500 --> 00:10:32.210 align:middle line:84%
that if the parents
and the children

00:10:32.210 --> 00:10:35.030 align:middle line:84%
are getting the
needed support and we

00:10:35.030 --> 00:10:38.870 align:middle line:84%
can ensure that our
aim is to provide

00:10:38.870 --> 00:10:44.090 align:middle line:84%
a community-based service
provision to everybody,

00:10:44.090 --> 00:10:47.570 align:middle line:84%
then we can prevent most of
the out-of-home placements

00:10:47.570 --> 00:10:50.360 align:middle line:84%
and separation of
children from parents.

00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:53.870 align:middle line:84%
We cannot live in an ideal
world where we can dream about

00:10:53.870 --> 00:10:57.470 align:middle line:84%
situations where no child
would be abused or neglected

00:10:57.470 --> 00:10:58.370 align:middle line:90%
or abandoned.

00:10:58.370 --> 00:11:01.040 align:middle line:84%
So I'm not saying, and
I'm not naive saying,

00:11:01.040 --> 00:11:03.500 align:middle line:90%
that we can resolve this.

00:11:03.500 --> 00:11:06.320 align:middle line:84%
But we can say for
sure that investing

00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:08.410 align:middle line:84%
in children from
this perspective,

00:11:08.410 --> 00:11:13.190 align:middle line:84%
also, and into
families and parenting

00:11:13.190 --> 00:11:18.380 align:middle line:84%
would mean that we can
achieve a point where there

00:11:18.380 --> 00:11:23.330 align:middle line:84%
is a universal understanding,
but also universal service

00:11:23.330 --> 00:11:29.090 align:middle line:84%
provision, that can serve the
best interests of children.

00:11:29.090 --> 00:11:32.270 align:middle line:84%
And that could
contribute not only

00:11:32.270 --> 00:11:35.965 align:middle line:84%
to the well-being of
children, but also

00:11:35.965 --> 00:11:42.980 align:middle line:84%
a much less stigmatising manner
and a much more child-friendly

00:11:42.980 --> 00:11:46.580 align:middle line:84%
approach when children can
live in their own environment

00:11:46.580 --> 00:11:48.650 align:middle line:84%
with their own
families, but they

00:11:48.650 --> 00:11:54.110 align:middle line:84%
are entitled to every
possible service needed.

00:11:54.110 --> 00:11:59.480 align:middle line:84%
On the other hand, we also have
to provide much better training

00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:02.720 align:middle line:84%
and a much higher prestige
to all those professionals

00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:06.260 align:middle line:84%
who are working with children
because what we've learned--

00:12:06.260 --> 00:12:09.950 align:middle line:84%
that the quality of care,
not only the parental care,

00:12:09.950 --> 00:12:14.060 align:middle line:84%
but also the care of house
visitors, paediatricians,

00:12:14.060 --> 00:12:17.660 align:middle line:84%
or kindergarten
teachers, or teachers

00:12:17.660 --> 00:12:20.360 align:middle line:84%
at schools, social
workers, and all

00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:22.640 align:middle line:84%
the other helping
professionals--

00:12:22.640 --> 00:12:26.150 align:middle line:84%
police forces,
judges, prosecutors,

00:12:26.150 --> 00:12:30.440 align:middle line:84%
whoever is working with children
and the administration--

00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:33.490 align:middle line:84%
that is a very important
contributing factor.

00:12:33.490 --> 00:12:37.040 align:middle line:84%
Nowadays, what we are
facing is that those working

00:12:37.040 --> 00:12:40.910 align:middle line:84%
with families and children
are not very highly valued,

00:12:40.910 --> 00:12:43.490 align:middle line:84%
and especially not
very well-paid.

00:12:43.490 --> 00:12:46.850 align:middle line:84%
So if we are improving
the care system,

00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:49.850 align:middle line:90%
the local community-based--

00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:54.440 align:middle line:84%
then it is not only
much better and serving

00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:58.460 align:middle line:84%
the best interest of the
children, but on the long run

00:12:58.460 --> 00:13:00.470 align:middle line:84%
and looking at
the whole picture,

00:13:00.470 --> 00:13:04.100 align:middle line:84%
it is also much more
cost-effective and much more

00:13:04.100 --> 00:13:04.880 align:middle line:90%
efficient.

00:13:04.880 --> 00:13:06.540 align:middle line:90%
I wouldn't say cheaper.

00:13:06.540 --> 00:13:11.200 align:middle line:84%
I would rather say that the
money is much better spent.

00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:18.272 align:middle line:90%