WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.500 align:middle line:90% 00:00:00.500 --> 00:00:03.824 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:00:03.824 --> 00:00:08.604 align:middle line:90% 00:00:08.604 --> 00:00:10.080 align:middle line:90% OLAKUNLE ALONGE: Hello. 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:11.350 align:middle line:90% Welcome. 00:00:11.350 --> 00:00:12.460 align:middle line:90% I'm Olakunle Alonge. 00:00:12.460 --> 00:00:19.540 align:middle line:84% And with me today is Professor Patrick Kayembe from the DRC. 00:00:19.540 --> 00:00:23.170 align:middle line:84% And we're going to be talking about data for decision 00:00:23.170 --> 00:00:27.610 align:middle line:84% making, specifically around some of the issues with poor quality 00:00:27.610 --> 00:00:31.480 align:middle line:84% data, the reasons for these issues, 00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:34.870 align:middle line:90% and some of the solutions. 00:00:34.870 --> 00:00:37.240 align:middle line:84% Patrick, thanks a lot for joining me 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:39.830 align:middle line:90% in this conversation. 00:00:39.830 --> 00:00:43.930 align:middle line:84% I really want you, based on your experience in the DRC 00:00:43.930 --> 00:00:46.320 align:middle line:84% and in many other countries working in surveillance 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:48.850 align:middle line:84% and in collecting data for epidemiology, 00:00:48.850 --> 00:00:53.770 align:middle line:84% for implementation, what are some of the reasons why 00:00:53.770 --> 00:00:59.470 align:middle line:84% you think data is not being used as effectively as it could 00:00:59.470 --> 00:01:01.175 align:middle line:90% in public health programming. 00:01:01.175 --> 00:01:03.550 align:middle line:84% PATRICK KAYEMBE: Thank you for this interesting question. 00:01:03.550 --> 00:01:06.430 align:middle line:90% 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:11.150 align:middle line:84% Data are not being used for many reasons. 00:01:11.150 --> 00:01:16.320 align:middle line:84% So one of the reasons is that people in charge-- 00:01:16.320 --> 00:01:18.800 align:middle line:84% so we're supposed to be using this data. 00:01:18.800 --> 00:01:21.850 align:middle line:90% We don't have that skills. 00:01:21.850 --> 00:01:25.980 align:middle line:84% They don't think that this data is important for 00:01:25.980 --> 00:01:28.450 align:middle line:84% to make to make decisions, to see it, 00:01:28.450 --> 00:01:31.000 align:middle line:84% to monitor what's going on, let's say 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:34.690 align:middle line:84% for health programs are being implemented 00:01:34.690 --> 00:01:36.850 align:middle line:84% to see where to [INAUDIBLE] and where 00:01:36.850 --> 00:01:40.040 align:middle line:90% to bring changes and correction. 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:41.570 align:middle line:90% They don't have that. 00:01:41.570 --> 00:01:44.290 align:middle line:90% It's a program for [INAUDIBLE]. 00:01:44.290 --> 00:01:46.180 align:middle line:90% They don't have that. 00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:50.610 align:middle line:84% And when the data is available, sometimes the data 00:01:50.610 --> 00:01:52.950 align:middle line:90% is very poor quality. 00:01:52.950 --> 00:01:58.510 align:middle line:84% So there's nothing you can pull out from that, from that data. 00:01:58.510 --> 00:02:02.027 align:middle line:90% So they are incomplete, timely. 00:02:02.027 --> 00:02:02.860 align:middle line:90% So it's [INAUDIBLE]. 00:02:02.860 --> 00:02:06.070 align:middle line:84% And then that way you see that in Africa, most 00:02:06.070 --> 00:02:10.240 align:middle line:84% of the time, people do conduct surveys to generate 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:11.510 align:middle line:90% some new data. 00:02:11.510 --> 00:02:13.090 align:middle line:84% Because the existing data, the data 00:02:13.090 --> 00:02:16.030 align:middle line:84% being collected through the National Information System 00:02:16.030 --> 00:02:17.860 align:middle line:90% is of very poor quantity. 00:02:17.860 --> 00:02:21.540 align:middle line:90% 00:02:21.540 --> 00:02:24.910 align:middle line:84% OLAKUNLE ALONGE: I mean, this is really insightful. 00:02:24.910 --> 00:02:29.420 align:middle line:84% So it's not a matter of people really know the details. 00:02:29.420 --> 00:02:32.050 align:middle line:84% There's an agreement, a consensus, the data is helpful. 00:02:32.050 --> 00:02:34.300 align:middle line:84% Well we don't use data because of-- 00:02:34.300 --> 00:02:36.970 align:middle line:84% one of the reasons is the poor quality of the data. 00:02:36.970 --> 00:02:40.050 align:middle line:84% The data is not collected in a timely fashion. 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:41.730 align:middle line:84% Some of the people are collecting data, 00:02:41.730 --> 00:02:44.590 align:middle line:84% they don't also see the usefulness of it. 00:02:44.590 --> 00:02:47.890 align:middle line:90% Thanks a lot for those points. 00:02:47.890 --> 00:02:50.380 align:middle line:84% Now in order to improve the quality 00:02:50.380 --> 00:02:54.730 align:middle line:84% of data, what are some of the strategies that 00:02:54.730 --> 00:02:56.260 align:middle line:90% have been tried. 00:02:56.260 --> 00:02:59.080 align:middle line:84% And I really want you to comment especially 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:03.640 align:middle line:84% on this idea of providing monetary incentives to improve 00:03:03.640 --> 00:03:05.980 align:middle line:90% the quality of data. 00:03:05.980 --> 00:03:08.980 align:middle line:84% And what are some of the pitfalls? 00:03:08.980 --> 00:03:12.130 align:middle line:84% Or what are some of the advantages and disadvantages 00:03:12.130 --> 00:03:13.055 align:middle line:90% of this? 00:03:13.055 --> 00:03:15.390 align:middle line:90% PATRICK KAYEMBE: Yes. 00:03:15.390 --> 00:03:20.620 align:middle line:84% There are many strategies that have been tried in, 00:03:20.620 --> 00:03:23.770 align:middle line:84% let's say, in the Democratic Republic of Congo. 00:03:23.770 --> 00:03:26.950 align:middle line:90% So one of them train people. 00:03:26.950 --> 00:03:28.930 align:middle line:84% So you train people so they know exactly how 00:03:28.930 --> 00:03:33.190 align:middle line:84% to collect the data, what kind of data they need to collect, 00:03:33.190 --> 00:03:35.210 align:middle line:90% and supervising them. 00:03:35.210 --> 00:03:39.340 align:middle line:84% But the thing is, once you train somebody and somebody has 00:03:39.340 --> 00:03:41.980 align:middle line:84% are skills so that this one will leave, 00:03:41.980 --> 00:03:46.487 align:middle line:84% so would be hired by other organization out there. 00:03:46.487 --> 00:03:48.070 align:middle line:84% So really, there'll be a [INAUDIBLE],, 00:03:48.070 --> 00:03:49.060 align:middle line:90% you're looking at him. 00:03:49.060 --> 00:03:51.880 align:middle line:84% [INAUDIBLE] And that person will be gone. 00:03:51.880 --> 00:03:56.690 align:middle line:84% And then we end up appointing another one, not trained, 00:03:56.690 --> 00:04:05.290 align:middle line:84% not having the necessary skills to collect good quality data. 00:04:05.290 --> 00:04:09.440 align:middle line:90% So that's one of the problems. 00:04:09.440 --> 00:04:15.520 align:middle line:84% Another problem is that giving people incentives so that they 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:20.790 align:middle line:84% can commit to the work, the problem with giving incentives 00:04:20.790 --> 00:04:21.290 align:middle line:90% is good. 00:04:21.290 --> 00:04:23.330 align:middle line:90% It gives people some money. 00:04:23.330 --> 00:04:25.470 align:middle line:84% But the problem is how do you sustain that. 00:04:25.470 --> 00:04:27.860 align:middle line:84% So it's a problem of sustainability. 00:04:27.860 --> 00:04:29.980 align:middle line:84% So how long are you going to be giving them 00:04:29.980 --> 00:04:32.570 align:middle line:90% money to be doing that. 00:04:32.570 --> 00:04:34.400 align:middle line:90% That's the problem. 00:04:34.400 --> 00:04:37.450 align:middle line:84% So I think that the best strategy would be 00:04:37.450 --> 00:04:41.260 align:middle line:90% to make people understand why. 00:04:41.260 --> 00:04:43.690 align:middle line:90% That is very important. 00:04:43.690 --> 00:04:47.260 align:middle line:84% So why do they collect them and why they should even 00:04:47.260 --> 00:04:50.890 align:middle line:84% collect them and use them locally before sending them 00:04:50.890 --> 00:04:53.260 align:middle line:90% to the higher level. 00:04:53.260 --> 00:04:55.167 align:middle line:84% Because what is happening is that people 00:04:55.167 --> 00:04:57.250 align:middle line:84% collect the data don't understand exactly why they 00:04:57.250 --> 00:04:58.125 align:middle line:90% have to collect them. 00:04:58.125 --> 00:05:00.530 align:middle line:90% They just collect to send. 00:05:00.530 --> 00:05:06.962 align:middle line:84% They don't use them for their own planning, locally planning 00:05:06.962 --> 00:05:08.420 align:middle line:84% and [INAUDIBLE] monitoring locally. 00:05:08.420 --> 00:05:12.430 align:middle line:84% So they're just used to send this information to the higher 00:05:12.430 --> 00:05:15.430 align:middle line:84% level and don't understand what they're doing. 00:05:15.430 --> 00:05:17.720 align:middle line:84% And we have experience of people. 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:22.610 align:middle line:84% So we appointed-- they feel that they are being punished. 00:05:22.610 --> 00:05:26.590 align:middle line:84% So why do they ask me to be filling this form? 00:05:26.590 --> 00:05:30.397 align:middle line:84% So because of they don't like me so they do it to punish me. 00:05:30.397 --> 00:05:31.730 align:middle line:90% And then the people don't do it. 00:05:31.730 --> 00:05:34.310 align:middle line:90% And then they make up data. 00:05:34.310 --> 00:05:36.550 align:middle line:84% They make up data just because this 00:05:36.550 --> 00:05:40.040 align:middle line:84% is additional work they're asking them to do, and then 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:41.730 align:middle line:90% end up with a very [INAUDIBLE]. 00:05:41.730 --> 00:05:44.270 align:middle line:84% So the [INAUDIBLE] at training people, 00:05:44.270 --> 00:05:46.480 align:middle line:84% supervising them, and giving some incentives. 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:48.850 align:middle line:84% But it's mostly making them understand 00:05:48.850 --> 00:05:52.640 align:middle line:84% why this is useful, why they should keep doing it correctly. 00:05:52.640 --> 00:05:57.320 align:middle line:84% OLAKUNLE ALONGE: Well, I mean this is very insightful, 00:05:57.320 --> 00:05:59.180 align:middle line:84% these points that you've highlighted 00:05:59.180 --> 00:06:03.470 align:middle line:84% that, indeed, the census should not be a stand alone approach. 00:06:03.470 --> 00:06:05.840 align:middle line:84% What is really most important is for people 00:06:05.840 --> 00:06:09.920 align:middle line:84% to see the utility of the data that they are collecting 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:12.810 align:middle line:84% and therefore, to have motivation to collect the data. 00:06:12.810 --> 00:06:14.900 align:middle line:84% And on top of that, to then put incentives. 00:06:14.900 --> 00:06:17.580 align:middle line:84% I think that's a very good point. 00:06:17.580 --> 00:06:20.720 align:middle line:84% I would just like to add from the experience, what 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:22.220 align:middle line:90% are some of the challenges? 00:06:22.220 --> 00:06:25.680 align:middle line:84% Or in terms of when you have multiple programs 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:30.110 align:middle line:84% or you are needing different kinds of data, 00:06:30.110 --> 00:06:34.580 align:middle line:84% and you have systems being set in place for collecting 00:06:34.580 --> 00:06:37.990 align:middle line:84% this data, what are some of the repercussions of that 00:06:37.990 --> 00:06:41.733 align:middle line:84% to collecting good quality data in a place like the DRC? 00:06:41.733 --> 00:06:42.650 align:middle line:90% PATRICK KAYEMBE: Yeah. 00:06:42.650 --> 00:06:44.540 align:middle line:90% These are very important points. 00:06:44.540 --> 00:06:46.580 align:middle line:84% So you see, the problem that we have, 00:06:46.580 --> 00:06:50.600 align:middle line:84% what we call the National Information System, that 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:54.500 align:middle line:84% should be collecting information for all programs that 00:06:54.500 --> 00:06:56.870 align:middle line:90% are being implemented. 00:06:56.870 --> 00:07:00.950 align:middle line:84% But what is happening that all partner coming in, 00:07:00.950 --> 00:07:02.960 align:middle line:84% each partner wants to have its own system. 00:07:02.960 --> 00:07:06.180 align:middle line:84% So they're setting up parallel systems 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:08.480 align:middle line:84% and then sending the form to the field 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.230 align:middle line:84% so a health professional in the health center 00:07:12.230 --> 00:07:16.590 align:middle line:84% might find himself filling 20, 30 forms. 00:07:16.590 --> 00:07:18.290 align:middle line:90% And this is becoming a-- 00:07:18.290 --> 00:07:20.640 align:middle line:84% so it's something that's overwhelming. 00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:22.730 align:middle line:84% And then he doesn't fill them correctly 00:07:22.730 --> 00:07:24.980 align:middle line:90% because it's just a lot of work. 00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:30.470 align:middle line:84% And people, a partner, are not willing to [INAUDIBLE] system. 00:07:30.470 --> 00:07:34.880 align:middle line:84% So everybody who wants to set his own [INAUDIBLE].. 00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:38.000 align:middle line:84% We need-- what is important is that everybody to come up 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:38.640 align:middle line:90% with-- 00:07:38.640 --> 00:07:41.480 align:middle line:84% to be certain that the [INAUDIBLE] system that's 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:45.470 align:middle line:84% in place so that the system can be generating very, very, very 00:07:45.470 --> 00:07:48.290 align:middle line:84% good data so everybody that can use. 00:07:48.290 --> 00:07:51.890 align:middle line:84% And the system should be flexible to accommodate 00:07:51.890 --> 00:07:53.770 align:middle line:90% new programs. 00:07:53.770 --> 00:07:58.260 align:middle line:90% And this is being achieved now. 00:07:58.260 --> 00:08:01.880 align:middle line:90% And then, we have this-- 00:08:01.880 --> 00:08:05.340 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:08:05.340 --> 00:08:08.660 align:middle line:84% --that has been implemented around the country. 00:08:08.660 --> 00:08:10.180 align:middle line:84% So but still, we have this problem. 00:08:10.180 --> 00:08:15.140 align:middle line:84% Because now every health district is connected. 00:08:15.140 --> 00:08:18.460 align:middle line:84% But the problem is that sending the data on time 00:08:18.460 --> 00:08:19.860 align:middle line:90% is still a problem. 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:23.990 align:middle line:84% So we hope that this technology may be a solution. 00:08:23.990 --> 00:08:28.460 align:middle line:84% But another thing is that internet connectivity is not 00:08:28.460 --> 00:08:29.410 align:middle line:90% that good. 00:08:29.410 --> 00:08:32.270 align:middle line:84% And so this is impacting the quality of the data, 00:08:32.270 --> 00:08:38.450 align:middle line:84% and [INAUDIBLE] mostly sending this data on time. 00:08:38.450 --> 00:08:41.570 align:middle line:84% OLAKUNLE ALONGE: I mean, this is really very important, 00:08:41.570 --> 00:08:43.400 align:middle line:90% the issues that you have raised. 00:08:43.400 --> 00:08:47.930 align:middle line:84% So even aside from addressing the issue of incentives, aside 00:08:47.930 --> 00:08:52.550 align:middle line:84% from the issue of educating the data collectors on the use 00:08:52.550 --> 00:08:55.400 align:middle line:84% or the utility of the data so that they are motivated 00:08:55.400 --> 00:08:57.870 align:middle line:84% to collect good quality data and teaching them 00:08:57.870 --> 00:09:00.860 align:middle line:84% how to use the data for action, there is also 00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:03.260 align:middle line:84% the challenges with infrastructure. 00:09:03.260 --> 00:09:05.160 align:middle line:84% and then having the right infrastructure. 00:09:05.160 --> 00:09:07.520 align:middle line:84% Even when we trying to [INAUDIBLE] multiple data 00:09:07.520 --> 00:09:10.820 align:middle line:84% systems, you still have to have a very strong infrastructure 00:09:10.820 --> 00:09:13.140 align:middle line:90% to support that. 00:09:13.140 --> 00:09:17.450 align:middle line:84% And so the long term, we are going to be wrapping up now. 00:09:17.450 --> 00:09:19.850 align:middle line:84% I would really just want to say one thing 00:09:19.850 --> 00:09:23.720 align:middle line:84% that you would like your guests to take away with them 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:27.050 align:middle line:84% in terms of if you have the opportunity 00:09:27.050 --> 00:09:31.730 align:middle line:84% to change the system and to improve the system so that data 00:09:31.730 --> 00:09:34.060 align:middle line:90% can be used for decision making. 00:09:34.060 --> 00:09:38.775 align:middle line:84% What's the one thing that should be done? 00:09:38.775 --> 00:09:41.960 align:middle line:84% PATRICK KAYEMBE: That's a tough one. 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:44.690 align:middle line:84% One thing that is important, so I think that people should 00:09:44.690 --> 00:09:47.450 align:middle line:84% understand that we're not collecting data just 00:09:47.450 --> 00:09:49.202 align:middle line:90% for the sake of collecting data. 00:09:49.202 --> 00:09:50.660 align:middle line:84% So collecting data because the data 00:09:50.660 --> 00:09:54.150 align:middle line:84% is showing exactly what is going on, what we are doing, 00:09:54.150 --> 00:09:56.210 align:middle line:90% and where we should go. 00:09:56.210 --> 00:09:57.660 align:middle line:90% So it is very important. 00:09:57.660 --> 00:10:00.725 align:middle line:84% So there is no program without data. 00:10:00.725 --> 00:10:01.850 align:middle line:90% OLAKUNLE ALONGE: Thank you. 00:10:01.850 --> 00:10:05.120 align:middle line:84% I mean, that [INAUDIBLE] I think you've said it. 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:07.710 align:middle line:84% That really, at the end of the day, 00:10:07.710 --> 00:10:10.050 align:middle line:84% it boils down to people understanding 00:10:10.050 --> 00:10:11.820 align:middle line:90% why data is important. 00:10:11.820 --> 00:10:14.970 align:middle line:84% And when they do that, they will find innovative ways 00:10:14.970 --> 00:10:17.250 align:middle line:84% to ensure the quality of the data. 00:10:17.250 --> 00:10:18.810 align:middle line:90% Thanks a lot, Patrick. 00:10:18.810 --> 00:10:20.700 align:middle line:84% It's really been great to discuss with you. 00:10:20.700 --> 00:10:21.330 align:middle line:84% PATRICK KAYEMBE: Thank you for having me. 00:10:21.330 --> 00:10:22.247 align:middle line:90% OLAKUNLE ALONGE: Yeah. 00:10:22.247 --> 00:10:22.890 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:10:22.890 --> 00:10:26.500 align:middle line:84% And so our audience, again, thank you for joining us. 00:10:26.500 --> 00:10:28.800 align:middle line:84% We hope that this conversation has 00:10:28.800 --> 00:10:31.380 align:middle line:84% been helpful to understand some of the issues 00:10:31.380 --> 00:10:36.930 align:middle line:84% with regards to data quality in sub-Saharan Africa 00:10:36.930 --> 00:10:40.170 align:middle line:84% and some of the challenges and solutions 00:10:40.170 --> 00:10:44.620 align:middle line:84% and some particular ways on how to do it better. 00:10:44.620 --> 00:10:46.110 align:middle line:90% So thanks again. 00:10:46.110 --> 00:10:47.550 align:middle line:90% This is where we wrap it up. 00:10:47.550 --> 00:10:52.070 align:middle line:84% And until we meet another time, bye for now. 00:10:52.070 --> 00:10:55.720 align:middle line:90% [MUSIC PLAYING] 00:10:55.720 --> 00:11:00.000 align:middle line:90%